Who is On Our Side…Newt Gingrich or Ron Paul?

As someone who teaches regularly the Cycles of  History, I am familiar with Alvin Toffler’s The Third Wave.  I do not believe Mr. Toffler has the right idea on our government policy, but he is correct in his teaching of the Information Age.  In political thinking, we part ways.  However, we need to look at the different ideologies and recognize that claiming to be a Republican, or a Conservative will not be enough.   These first videos are lengthy, but I ask that you take the time to watch them all.  We must become an informed society, not one that listens to just sound bites and makes decisions.

This is from the John Birch Society.  They’ve had it right for a long time, but they began in 1958, after a global institutional founding (Spring) had occurred in our country.  This time in the cycles makes it difficult to change society.  But now that we are in a Fourth Turning, change comes quickly.  People will gravitate to societies such as these, and unite under common goals. 

Learn who one of the “leaders” of the conservative movement is, and why he is not really a conservative at all.

These recordings are not as good as the original, but I could post them here.  If you would like to watch the entire clip uninterrupted, and with the sound matching the video, please visit http://vimeo.com/6445068 

Do not be fooled by people who hold up the Founding Fathers in speeches and vote against our founding principles.  Do not let the words pull you into their political dichotomy.  Watch them.  Watch how they vote.  Newt Gingrich is a party guy.  He threw his support to a Republican in the New York race, who then threw her support to the Democrat over the independent, when she dropped out of the race. 

Newt Gingrich supports Bob Bennett in the Senate race for Utah.  Look at his voting record.  Bennett voted against the health care bill, but has one of his own he’d like to put forward.  It’s not his right as a Senator to promote health care programs on a federal level.  This is a state right.

It will be important to truly “get to know” candidates on every level.  Choose good people right from the beginning.  Do you have any say over the people who run for Senate on the Republican ticket?  Maybe.  That depends on your role.  We are a Republic.  We choose individuals to represent us.  It starts right in your neighborhood.  On March 23, 2010, for Utahns, your duty as a citizen begins.  Attend your local caucus and vote in the representatives from your area that are the most informed, the most willing to serve, and the most willing to elect candidates that will adhere to the Constitution of the United States, and the principles found in The 5,000 Year Leap.  If you would like help connecting with other like-minded individuals, go to www.utahrising.com and find a group near you.  If you are in a very rural area, we can help you set up your own STAR Forum group as well.  Just contact us and we’ll get you started.

Now watch the next video.  It’s very short.  Only 5 minutes, and you will understand what we are looking for in statesmen.  Ron Paul has consistently voted according to the Constitution, not party lines.   This video describes likely events that have been predicted by The Fourth Turning, and many economists.  Special thanks to Andy Whitehead, a member of our group, for sending this in.  Educate yourself, help educate others, prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.  We are a great nation that will overcome it’s challenges when we continually stick to our principles.

22 thoughts on “Who is On Our Side…Newt Gingrich or Ron Paul?

  1. Have you ever checked out the various indexes prepared by groups that monitor political and economic freedom around the world?

    For example:

    The annual Heritage Foundation/Wall Street Journal Index of Economic Freedom based upon ten broad factors of economic freedom – trade policy, fiscal burden of government, government intervention in the economy, monetary policy, capital flows and foreign investment, banking and finance, wages and prices, property rights, regulation and informal market activity.

    Significantly, countries which YOU would consider “socialist” nevertheless rank very high in terms of personal and economic freedoms.


    CATO INSTITUTE Economic Freedom of the World



    ECONOMIST–QUALITY OF LIFE INDEX (page 4 = summary by country)

    Click to access QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf

    FRAZIER INSTITUTE: Economic Freedom of the World



  2. And, we will see what America chooses. It will either be socialism or freedom. Many people are being challenged within their party because Congress has been playing both ends against the people. I am not surprised, and if truth is allowed, we will learn who is the best person for the job.


  3. Incidentally, in case you don’t already know this, Cong. Ron Paul is being challenged by two individuals who come out of the Tea Party Movement.

    Even RP is not immune from challenges to his conservative or libertarian credentials!


  4. To be clear, it went off track just after the civil war when we were a nation founded on Federalism, and following it was Nationalism. Then we went to a more global society with the UN, GATT, NATO, IMF. I’m not saying we were in better shape, but we took a drastic turn toward globalism and progressivism.


  5. I submit that if the JBS (or similar groups) ever obtained actual power, they too would “take our country to a place it was never intended”.

    Where you and I probably disagree is your presumption that about 100 years ago we were in better shape than we are today, i.e. that our society was “a more perfect union”.

    But this idea of some sort of lost golden age is standard dogma among highly ideological people who lust after power so that THEY can re-make America.


  6. Again, you are missing the point. I am not here to debate JBS. I believe we have people in our “Conservative” movement, that are not conservative at all. They are for bigger government, more control, etc. The JBS video is full of facts that point to what I have come to believe. I am not debating past presidents, or anything else you keep bringing up, that is why I choose to let it go. I have proof of many RINO’s without any help from JBS or any other group. Just watch the news and if you are watching carefully you’ll learn for yourself there are those that are power hungry, and want to take our country to a place it was never intended. I am a student of history, and this began long ago, as the JBS foundation says it did. Just read The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe. We’ve been very off track for over 100 years. We’ve had a few good people, but not with enough power to make the changes neccessary. Now is the time for change. JBS was just in the wrong turning.


  7. For the life of me I can’t figure out why you focused on two words “violent language” and totally ignored the substantive point which Kirk was making….but I guess that is your debate style.

    And, of course, it wasn’t just Russell Kirk — it was virtually the entire conservative and anti-communist community.

    But you come close to understanding the basic issue in your final sentences. The difference between us is that you accept whatever the JBS says about itself as indisputably accurate and truthful. So if they produce stuff which CLAIMS that they believe in the Constitution “as originally intended” and “states rights” and “personal liberty and responsibility” — then that makes them a credible, responsible, and admirable group.

    I, of course, disagree with you based upon 40 years of debating JBS members.

    Lastly, one final thought with respect to “violent language”. You cannot tell people for over 50 years that virtually our entire national leadership has been composed of Communists, Communist sympathizers, and Communist agents [now called “Insiders”] and not expect such language to impact the thought processes and attitudes of the people who accept that propaganda — which is why, of course, the Birch Society lamented earlier this year in the JBS Bulletin that President Clinton was not impeached for TREASON!


  8. Violent language? Nothing in those videos promotes violence at all. You are arguing a non-issue. This video and this post have to do with the fact that there are wolves in sheeps clothing. You obviously don’t believe that, but most of the people in my group, believe that. You will find no supporters of your arguments here. You don’t like the JBS organization. We are not that organization. As I said before, I will stand shoulder to shoulder for those that promote the Constitution as originally intended, with states rights, and personal liberty and responsibility. You believe they are not that group. We got it already. So don’t stand with them. Stand alone.


  9. You persist in being obtuse and creating straw man arguments.

    YOU started this discussion by claiming that the JBS believes in “limited government” and “individual liberty” and you then recommended them for being “right all along”.

    I am not discussing KKK. I am discussing how the John Birch Society has demonstrated its understanding of the principles which they CLAIM to believe in — and I used our racial issue as the prime example. If we left everything up to the JBS — we would STILL live in a segregated society.

    I mentioned KKK only to illustrate that you cannot simply refer to self-serving statements by people or organizations that CLAIM to be (as you stated in your opening remarks) pursuing or defending principles of limited government and individual liberty.

    Our founding fathers did NOT create “a free society”. They created a society which allowed and defended human slavery and they created a country which disenfranchised the majority of adults living here (women, blacks, asians,Catholics, non-propertied white males, etc).

    Successor generations created our genuinely free society because THEY implemented the abstract principles which our founding fathers outlined.

    The pre-eminent conservative intellectual of the 20th century put it best:

    Russell Kirk (America magazine, 2/17/62):

    “Robert Welch…is remarkably ignorant of the Communist conspiracy he denounces…Ever since he founded his society he has done more to injure the cause of responsible conservatism than to act effectively against communism.”

    Russell Kirk (National Review magazine, 10/19/65, p928)

    “Nothing could do more to discredit all conservatives than the violent language and unreal views regularly found in American Opinion. As several conservatively-inclined gentlemen have remarked to me…they would be sorely tempted to believe that the leaders of the Birch Society are agents of the Kremlin subtly working to discredit all opposition to Communism by reducing anti-Communism to absurdity. All Americans of a conservative bent should be warned against associating themselves with an organization which is totally ineffectual in resisting Communism and socialism…”


  10. Ernie1241: You have a blog. You do not need to repost ALL of your data on mine. If you have a comment relevant to this discussion, that is fine, but if you continue to post lengthy diatribes, you will be removed. As far as #1 #2 #3, inside of comment #1 I agree with them. It is you that is blinded by words. Communist, Progressive, Socialist, Marxist, they have the same end game.

    If someone is against the free society that was created by my founding fathers they are treasonous. Our country created a safe place for anyone to come and try his hand at prosperity. Many would succeed, and many would fail. We have had injustices in our days as a country, but the race issue needs to end now. If you post one more thing about the KKK, a group which I find abhorrent, your posts will be banned. No one on this site has ever referenced the KKK, or had anything to do with that gorup. I believe in free speech, but not disparaging remarks that divide. I am fighting for my cause. Go fight for yours on your own ground. If you had legitimate questions you wanted clarified, we could have a civil discussion, but you do not want that. You are using our blog and re-posting your blog here. You are welcome to direct people to your site as I allowed you in your first post, but I’ve heard enough of your accusatory remarks.


  11. Human rights and states rights are on a different plane all together. I am not a member of the John Birch Society, and I do not claim to know all of the ins and outs of it’s group. But, I do know that individual liberty and states rights are at the core of their beliefs. I believe there is a strong a powerful group of people that pit both ends against the American people. We must put some of our differences aside and learn to hold hands with freedom loving individuals.

    The John Birch Society, the 9.12 groups, the Campaign for Liberty groups, The American Heritage groups, the Eagle Forum groups, we all want the same basic goal. The founding fathers did not agree on everything, but it was important enough for the long-term goal of this country to work together to provide a structure that secured maximum freedom with personal responsibility. The point of the video is to make it clear that people like Newt Gingrich are not true conservatives, and want global entities to be in charge, and want big government.

    Your site is obviously an anti-John Birch site. I’m not anti-anything., I am pro-liberty, I am pro-freedom. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with others that have the same basic goals, because I know that if we stick to principles, the issues work themselves out.

    Also, you keep bring up this KKK thing. Why? This article has absolutely nothing to do with race. If you would like to read a great article by a Young Black Conservative, go here:
    https://thestarforum.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/jerome-hudson-the-life-of-a-young-black-conservative/ I agree with Utah. You are getting stuck on something this article has nothing to do with.

    And The STAR Forum is a group of people that post articles. This one happens to be by a woman, Jacqueline Smith.


    • I used the data concerning the JBS position on our civil rights movement because it demonstrates the difference between WORDS and DEEDS.

      Anybody can CLAIM to favor “individual liberty” and “state’s rights”. The KKK did. So did all white supremacists who controlled our southern states. Which is why I quoted Bircher George Schuyler’s comments so you could understand I was not giving you MY subjective interpretation.

      I have debated JBS members for more than 40 years. They DO NOT favor “individual liberty”.

      Instead, they want a day of reckoning to commence. If they had their way, most of our Presidents during the past 60 years would have been impeached for TREASON!

      My critics here are clueless about the true underlying ideology of the Birch Society — which, for PR purposes, they now downplay in order to seduce gullible people into their ranks. This process is comparable to what happened to liberals during the 1940’s when Communists try to seduce them.

      The following comments were made by JBS founder, Robert Welch, to the first meeting of his National Council. These sentiments STILL inform JBS thinking — but after the JBS lost the libel lawsuit to Elmer Gertz and they had to pay him $400,000 — they changed the word “Communist” to “Insiders” or “elitists” in order to avoid further lawsuits.

      After you read these comments, I will bring JBS premises into current times by quoting the JBS description of the 2002 reprint of Welch’s manuscript, The Politician.


      “From a careful and realistic study of the mountainous pile of evidence that is there for all to see, certain terrifying conclusions are objectively inescapable. Among them are:

      (1) The Communists are winning their large victories, as they always have, through the cumulative effect of small gains;

      (2) They make these gains chiefly through the conniving assistance of many of the very diplomats and officials who are supposed to be opposing them;

      (3) Communist influences are now in almost complete working control of our government;

      (4) And hence, the United States Government is today, as it has been for many years, the most important and powerful single force promoting the world-wide Communist advance.” [A Confidential Report To Members Of The Council of The John Birch Society – minutes of 1/9/60 meeting held at Union League Club in Chicago IL, page 1-2; minutes signed by Robert Welch.]

      Furthermore, according to the minutes of this meeting, Robert Welch stated:

      “Today, gentlemen, I can assure you, without the slightest doubt in my own mind that the takeover at the top is, for all practical purposes, virtually complete. Whether you like it or not, or whether you believe it or not, our Federal Government is already, literally in the hands of the Communists.” [Ibid, page 2]

      “In our two states with the largest population, New York and California …already the two present Governors are almost certainly actual Communists…Our Congress now contains a number of men like Adam Clayton Powell of New York and Charles Porter of Oregon, who are certainly actual Communists, and plenty more who are sympathetic to Communist purposes for either ideological or opportunistic reasons.” [Ibid, page 7] [Note: the reference to Governors refers to Edmund G. Brown of California and Nelson Rockefeller of New York.]

      “In the Senate, there are men like Stephen Young of Ohio, and Wayne Morse of Oregon, McNamara of Michigan, and Clifford Case of New Jersey and Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota and Estes Kefauver of Tennessee and John F. Kennedy of Massachusetts, whom it is utter folly to think of as just liberals. Every one of those men is either an actual Communist or so completely a Communist sympathizer or agent that it makes no practical difference…” [Ibid, page 8]

      “Our Supreme Court, dominated by Earl Warren and Felix Frankfurter and Hugo Black, is so visibly pro-Communist that no argument is even needed…And our federal courts below that level…are in many cases just as bad.” [Ibid, page 8]

      “Our State Department is loaded with Communists from top to bottom, to the extent that our roll call of Ambassadors almost sounds like a list somebody has put together to start a Communist front.” … [Ibid, page 8]

      “It is estimated from many reliable sources that from 70% to 90% of the responsible personnel in the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare are Communists. Our Central Intelligence Agency under Allen Dulles is nothing more or less than an agency to promote Communism throughout the world…Almost all the other Departments are loaded with Communists and Communist sympathizers. And this generalization most specifically does include our whole Defense Department.” [Ibid, page 8]


      In 2002, the JBS published a new edition of JBS founder Robert Welch’s so-called “private letter”, entitled The Politician.

      The JBS describes this edition on the back cover as “perhaps the most devestating expose of the last century” because it “tells the bitter, but little known, truth” about our postwar history.

      Among the “truths” which the JBS wants everyone to read and believe is that President Eisenhower and most of our political leaders and government officials during the past 8 decades have been traitors and conspirators.

      And to bring this message into contemporary history, the back cover of the 2002 edition states:

      “But most importantly The Politician exposes that ‘conspiracy of gangsters’ which even now is setting America’s foreign and domestic policy.”

      The “conspiracy of gangsters” quote is lifted from the following comment by Welch in The Politician:

      “To paraphrase Elizabeth Churchill Brown, ‘the only enemies the American people have to fear are the enemies in their midst.’
      The most conspicuous and injurious of these enemies today, I believe, is named Dwight David Eisenhower. He is either a willing agent, or an integral and important part, of a conspiracy of gangsters determined to rule the world at any cost.”

      So the “conspiracy of gangsters” idea is not a reference to honest mistakes made by decent, honorable, principled individuals. Instead, it is a reference to traitors and conspirators who want to impose a world-wide tyranny and whom, therefore, are not legitimate competitors in the political arena – but profound enemies of our way of life.

      If you check my report on the JBS at http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-1
      —you will see scanned copies of pages 266-269 of the unpublished edition of The Politician which contains the statements by Welch in which he described President Eisenhower as a Communist traitor.

      Incidentally, the themes, assertions, arguments, and evidence used in The Politician differ not one iota from the themes, assertions, arguments and evidence used in JBS literature since its inception — so it is quite disingenuous to propose that there was ever some sort of distinction between what the JBS believes versus what Mr. Welch wrote in his so-called “private letter”.

      JBS officials no longer subscribe to their former pretense which proposed that what Welch wrote in his “private letter” was not connected to the Birch Society. In fact, they now embrace the content of Welch’s manuscript. See, for example, the Foreword to the new 2002 edition written by the former CEO of the JBS.

      Furthermore, in a 8/22/62 letter to Ezra Taft Benson in which he offered to send a copy of his manuscript to Benson, Mr. Welch wrote:

      “For there are quite a number of outstanding Americans who are among our strongest and most unshakable supporters who had been made so by reading this document; and we have never really had any trouble with, or criticism from, those who have actually read the ‘letter’ themselves…”

      And in the September 1963 JBS Bulletin, Mr. Welch wrote that “The Politician has now proved to be by far the most effective single help to our recruiting efforts.”


  12. Cointelpro, the JBS may not be prefect, and no one had any idea how big the corruption was back then and how high it went. We are starting to see the reality now. There may be better organizations than the JBS, but without a doubt they where the first to ring the bell.

    Instead of spending time criticizing a group (cointelpro) doing more good than bad, let focus on the real enemy the big government controlled by the off shore bankers (THE FED).

    This article hits the nail on the head, and exposes the enemy within. The Tea Party, 9/12 is being taken over by the Neocons like Newt and others and we have to see just who is supporting the same old same old, and who really is being real, Bush and Obama are one in the same.

    The Republician party shot down Ron Paul the only true leader we had, and that tells alot.

    It does, matter who they are and how much any person has been built up, if they tip there hand and support the corruption, they are operatives hindering or take over our true opposition, I don’t care who they are, Rush, Hannity, OReilly, Beck, any of them that will support taxes of any sort, bail outs, illegal’s, and business as usual we have to keep an eye on them and raise a red flag.

    Great Article.


    • Utah: COINTELPRO does NOT mean “criticism”. What you seem to be saying is that you don’t care how much false information the Birch Society has disseminated over the past 50 years.

      One wonders if YOU and YOUR family were on the receiving end of false and libelous comments by the JBS — if you would be so unconcerned about their falsehoods?

      As J. Edgar Hoover pointed out:

      “I think the extreme right is just as much a danger to the freedom of this country as the extreme left. There are groups, organizations, and individuals on the extreme right who make these very violent statements, allegations that General Eisenhower was a Communist, disparaging references to the Chief Justice and at the other end of the spectrum you have these leftists who make wild statements charging almost anybody with being a Fascist or belonging to some of these so-called extreme right societies. ”

      “Now, I have felt, and I have said publicly in speeches, that they are just as much a danger, at either end of the spectrum. They don’t deal with facts. Anybody who will allege that General Eisenhower was a Communist agent, has something wrong with him. A lot of people read such allegations because I get some of the weirdest letters wanting to know whether we have inquired to find out whether that is true. I have known General Eisenhower quite well myself and I have found him to be a sound, level-headed man.”


  13. Postscript for LJ Miller:

    Just one more point concerning your absurdity about the JBS Conservative Index (now called the Freedom Index).

    You claim that the Index was not intended to express admiration. That is so patently absurd I can’t believe you put that in writing.

    The entire purpose of the Index was to evaluate voting behavior of politicians so that readers could determine (according to the Birch Society) whom was genuinely pro-Constitution and pro-limited government. In other words, the Index was intended to distinguish the “good guys” from the “bad guys” so readers would not support the low-scoring “bad guys”.

    Now, with respect to the situation in the 1960’s (and previously).

    The following quote comes from a source which even Birchers respect – i.e. prominent African-American intellectual and author George S. Schuyler whom, by the way, lectured across the country under the auspices of the Birch Society’s Speakers Bureau!

    Schuyler wrote:

    “The White Citizens Council which has branches or cells everywhere, controls by terror such states as Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, and to a lesser extent, Virginia…It has defied and disrupted the operation of the laws of the land. It has used threats and vicious economic reprisals…It has become a legal arm of Mississippi’s Government.” [4/22/61 Schuyler column in Pittsburgh PA Courier]

    Furthermore, let’s also consider a comment made by JBS member (and FBI informant within the White Knights of the KKK of Mississippi), Rev. Delmar Dennis:

    “The Klan in Mississippi has completely infiltrated every phase of the legal, political, social and economic system in Mississippi. The membership in the Klan ranges from common laborers and criminals, to judges, lawyers, doctors and political leaders. While they may not be active members, they are secret members who use their influence to further Klan efforts and aid Klan activities, for example, it is generally known in Klan circles that supervisors who pick juries use their influence to get Klan members on the jury panel.”

    Unfortunately, the Birch Society interpreted the problem in our southern states as entirely an abstraction instead of understanding the real-world consequences to living human beings.

    So what did the JBS recommend to address the grave situation described above by Birchers George Schuyler and Rev. Dennis? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

    The JBS totally ignored, de-valued, trivialized, or facilitated the daily injustices and crimes often committed (or condoned) by the very people in southern communities whom had the responsibility for translating abstract principles into reality. These were the folks who made “state’s rights” and the words “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” into a cruel joke.

    Like the entire white supremacist movement — the Birch Society

    (1) supported and praised the same racist politicians—such as Gov. George Wallace (AL) and Gov. Ross Barnett (MS) and Senator James Eastland (MS) and

    (2) opposed all civil rights legislation and pro-integration efforts and

    (3) described the civil rights movement as “Communist-created” and “Communist controlled” and “serving only Communist purposes” while simultaneously denouncing all civil rights leaders and organizations and

    (4) welcomed into the JBS as members and as senior officials — well-known racists and segregationists.

    In addition, even Rev. Delmar Dennis told his FBI contact that the KKK viewed the JBS as a fertile recruiting ground. In fact, at least one JBS chapter in Mississippi had to be disbanded because it refused to terminate the membership of a known KKK member.

    In an 11/7/64 report to his FBI contact, Dennis stated that:

    “I have learned that the Klan uses meetings of the John Birch Society, Masons, and Americans For The Preservation of the White Race to solicit members for the Klan. The Auxiliary Police in Neshoba County is a front for Klan membership in Neshoba County.”

    Aside from being a JBS member, Rev. Dennis was a segregationist, a KKK member, and a member of Americans for the Preservation of the White Race even before he became an FBI informant. He also founded a whites-only church in his community.

    As the FBI Special Agent in Charge of the Jackson MS field office wrote in a summary memo about Dennis:

    “Informant is widely known in rural Mississippi as an ardent segregationist…He founded the First Southern Methodist Church in Mississippi, which church was founded for the sole intent of maintaining racial segregation.”

    Rev. Dennis did not oppose KKK racism. He opposed KKK violence!

    The Birch Society welcomed racists and segregationists into its ranks as members, as chapter and section leaders, as writers and speakers, and including as National Council members — such as A.G. Heinsohn Jr., T. Coleman Andrews, and Tom Anderson.

    Major officers of the White Citizens Councils movement were also Birchers, such as: Medford Evans, William J. Simmons, and Louis W. Hollis.

    The Birch Society employed racists and segregationists as speakers under the auspices of the American Opinion Speakers Bureau – such as Sheriff Jim Clark of Selma AL and Rev. Ferrell Griswold of AL.

    The Birch Society approved of and promoted incumbent politicians and candidates for political office who were unapologetic Klan-supported white supremacists – such as Sen. James O. Eastland of MS and Gov. George Wallace of AL and Ross Barnett of MS.

    Often, the JBS sponsored or reprinted speeches by these folks or it otherwise endorsed their rants which characterized the civil rights movement as a Communist enterprise — which was certainly music to the ears of the most rabid bigots in control of southern communities.

    Kent Courtney, a prominent JBS leader in Louisiana, was the featured speaker at a 6/5/65 “Conservative Rally” in Natchez MS sponsored by Americans For The Preservation of the White Race, Inc.

    Another prominent Bircher, Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker, wrote in 1965:

    “I’ll bet you will find more good Americans in the Ku Klux Klan than in the Americans For Democratic Action.”

    William J. Story, a JBS member who was a candidate for Governor of Virginia refused to join the other major party candidates in condemning the KKK.

    James H. Sutherland was a JBS chapter and section leader in Missouri who founded the St. Louis chapter of White Citizens Councils. He was also active in Southern States Industrial Council and helped craft their annual Declaration of Policy which opposed school integration.

    The JBS IS NOT “Constitutionally moderate” — which is why virtually the entire conservative intellectual and political activist community rejected and denounced the JBS.


  14. LJ Miller: Yours is a typical malicious libelous reply. You can’t resist attempting to link me to “Communist” — can you? And why? Because I have spent considerable time and effort researching the claims made by the Birch Society — and I use the very sources which THEY recommend as reliable and authoritative!

    THAT is your basis for linking me to Communism. Shame on you!

    You are also wrong about the meaning and purpose of a political spectrum. The JBS is right-wing. Anarchy is not “right-wing”. There are radical leftists who are anarchists.

    You admit that you do not know what Robert Welch said in the Blue Book — but you immediately ASSUME my quote was taken “out of context”. This reveals that you are NOT an honorable person. An honorable person does NOT “assume” the worst possible interpretation of another person’s character, integrity, patriotism, or motives.

    Instead, an honorable person asks pertinent questions and performs due diligence by checking primary sources to discover the truth of the matter BEFORE making unkind, un-Christian and malicious statements.

    Now you should realize why the Birch Society lost an historic precedent-setting defamation lawsuit. They paid Chicago lawyer Elmer Gertz $100,000 in compensatory damages and $300,000 in punitive damages. Punitive damages are only permitted when “malice” can be shown, i.e. “recikless disregard for truth”. Your message here indicates that you prefer to adopt the same JBS methodology which it employed against Gertz. Shame on you!

    Finally, I suggest you read my JBS Report which is based, primarily, upon first-time-released FBI files and documents. Compare JBS statements and conclusions to the judgments made by senior officials of the FBI — and keep in mind that Robert Welch and the JBS have always effusively praised Hoover and the FBI as our country’s most knowledgeable, reliable, and authoritative source of factual data on both the communist movement and on what constitutes legitimate and effective anti-communist activities.


  15. If ernie1241 is talking about affirmative action as the’ 60’s using government to oppress and terrorize an entire category of our citizens,’ most truly conservative people I know do not support affirmative action. If Senator Eastland (MI) scored 96-100% it has nothing to do with “admiration.” The JBS scores are based on how the Congressman votes on constitutional and sovereignty issues during a particular session. Nothing else. It also seems strange to criticize leadership when the membership is 100% voluntary. Activists are not required to do anything and freely pick and choose what activism they do. I do not know about the “Welch explicitly said in the JBS Blue Book that only when “certain favorable conditions” existed – could there be a “republican form of organization or government”” quote but I would bet it’s taken out of context. That sounds like something that would apply to our constitution being powerful for a Christian nation. What’s behind the progressives? There are Communist at work to destroy America.

    This is a factual informative piece thestarforum has posted. I found it positive just as other posts that have been made by him. starforum seems to understand the forms of government as it’s correct that the JBS is not right wing as that is anarchy. There is a great must see video “Overview of America.” It’s available on YouTube. The JBS is constitutionally moderate. My bet is ernie1241 knows this and he simply does not support that.

    Upon an internet search, ernie1241 appears to spend a GREAT DEAL of time criticizing the JBS. It certainly makes me think ernie might be a progressive or even Communist and afraid the JBS is the best thing going to protect America and her constitutional Republic.


  16. In reply to your comment:

    (1) The FBI took no position whatsoever on “big government”. Its investigations focused on criminal and subversive activities.

    (2) You are assuming that just because the Birch Society gives lip service to “limited government” — then that means they genuinely adhere to Constitutional principles but when given a chance to demonstrate how they intended to apply their understanding of “limited government” and “state’s rights” in the 1960’s — they chose to side with the very elements in our southern states that were using government to oppress and terrorize an entire category of our citizens. In addition, if you consult their “Conservative Index” which scored the voting behavior of everybody in Congress whom they thought understood “limited government” — you will discover that people like Sen. James Eastland of Mississippi (a life-long white supremacist who had Klan support for his candidacies) was scored at 96-100%. If THAT is the kind of person you admire–then please don’t pretend that your values (or the Birch Society’s) are admirable.

    (3) Furthermore, the JBS modeled itself upon the CPUSA — i.e. top-down direction and no ability of members to choose and change leaders or policies. And JBS founder Robert Welch explicitly said in the JBS Blue Book that only when “certain favorable conditions” existed — could there be a “republican form of organization or government”. The reason why the JBS was modeled upon a totalitarian movement is because Welch thought the “certain favorable conditions” did NOT exist — and, later, he claimed that our nation was “literally in the hands of the Communists” — so, obviously, the “certain favorable conditions” did not exist for government either!

    THAT is why giants within the conservative and anti-communist movements denounced the Birch Society as inept, ignorant, and harmful to our politics — including such persons as Sen. Barry Goldwater, Sen. John Tower, Cong. Walter Judd, Russell Kirk, J. Edgar Hoover, the editors of Human Events, William Loeb, Ronald Reagan, James J. Kilpatrick, James Burnham, Frank Meyer, Eugene Lyons. Col. William R. Kintner, Gen. Albert Wedemeyer, and many more.


  17. For an alternative view of the Birch Society which demonstrates that they have not “had it right for a long time”, see:


    The above report explains why J. Edgar Hoover and senior FBI officials concluded in FBI memos that the Birch Society was “extremist”, “irrational”, “irresponsible”.

    Also see the following report for examples of criticisms of the JBS originating with right-wing sources:



    • The John Birch Society is not a group I am saying you need to join. I am saying that this group has had it right as far as limited government, individual liberty, and many other beliefs held by many of the rising “tea party” and “9.12” movement. If a group is considered right wing, it means they are pushing for anarchy, which is not what they are pushing for. They understand the need for a limited Federal government, and stronger state and local governments. It would not surprise me, even without visiting your blog, that the FBI might consider them extremists, because they are not promoting big government. They have seen the agenda long before it became popular, and recognized the signs of socialism, and globalism that were working their way into our system. We have had presidents take us down this path calling it “Progressivism.” But the results are the same. I have left your post intact because I believe in the 1st amendment, and your right to speak.


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